Author        Topic: Followup on INC and dirt
ruffiansb
Super Gamer
Posts: 77
From:
Registered: Sep 2000        posted 07-07-2002 03:45 PM
I have to say that the INC rating most definitely matters on dirt. I just finished racing a filly ranked 109D that had A's in everything but incline, which was a C. To put it mildly, she sucked. This horse would choke in the last 16th in every single race, and it was such a struggle to get her to hold on to win. And this was on the dirt. I managed to win 8 GIs with her by reloading over and over, but I finally gave up. I know I have raced horses with ratings much lower than 109 who were able to achieve so much more; the only difference being a B or better in INC.
She also never reached the A rating, despite the several Gr. Is and the Star of USA title. I kept her because she was a white from non-white parents, but she also sucks at breeding and I can't seem to get a half-decent white out of her.
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Kalgon
Super Gamer
Posts: 40
From:
Registered: Feb 2002        posted 07-07-2002 06:31 PM
Thanks for the followup.
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Geauxfer
Super Gamer
Posts: 196
From:LaPlace,La USA
Registered: Jan 2002        posted 07-07-2002 06:51 PM
Ruffiansb,
I agree with you. We are starting to find that many of the dirt tracks have inclines that occur during the race before the stretch,so incline does play an important part.In the case of your horse I would like to know who the sire and dam were.I think that many of the horses have strenghts and abillities that do not show up as any number or bar,they remain intangible but exist none the less and seem to be the key for getting higher dirt ratings that stick.So If you can remember the parents names that would be a big help.Thanks and Good Luck!
------------------
Geauxfer
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LadyLinda
Super Gamer
Posts: 318
From:Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Sep 2001        posted 07-07-2002 07:08 PM
ruffian, I kept a white horse because he was white--and he was just this short of being a complete dud! It took me three breeds to get winning grittiness and bars (he had poor inc, also) back into the line. I did it, but had to give up the white coloring. Next time, I won't keep a white horse unless she/he rocks!
And I agree with Geauxfer about those intangibles. Some horses just "have it".
[This message has been edited by LadyLinda (edited 07-08-2002).]
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ruffiansb
Super Gamer
Posts: 77
From:
Registered: Sep 2000        posted 07-08-2002 05:35 AM
Geauxfer - The parents were Sammy Soon and Comin Strong. She must have inherited the bad incline from Sammy Soon, because if I recall correctly Comin Strong's isn't that bad.
LadyLinda - I probably should have passed on this horse anyway, since I already had two white colts waiting to be bred and besides, this one only had 6 starts and a 3yo peak. I guess I was just so happy to finally get a white filly as opposed to a colt so I thought I could do something with her. And I had already passed on another random white just because it was a colt even though it had excellent attributes. (I had run out of fillies at the time).
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gbg001
Super Gamer
Posts: 28
From:shreveport, la
Registered: Jul 2002        posted 07-11-2002 08:49 PM
all this talk of white horses--------just how do you get horse that's not the typical brown that I always get? (other than breeding greys)
I had a horse Rusty Dusty that sounds just like the horse you are talking about----that last .5 furlongs he spits the bit.
One cheaper horse that puts out excellent offspring is Sonara. I bred him to a filly out of Wacky Racer (turf sprinter) and came out with a super dirt horse that had S across the board despite the modest breeding.
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girl racer
Super Gamer
Posts: 440
From:CO
Registered: Jan 2002        posted 07-11-2002 09:17 PM
gbg,
Isn't that one of the nice surprises when you get a decent horse even though the breeding may be a bit suspect?
Now that the Dream Horses aren't so hard to get I am having fun breeding them to lower level fillies just to see what I get. At the very least it will give a boost to a new breeding line.
girl racer
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LadyLinda
Super Gamer
Posts: 318
From:Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Sep 2001        posted 07-12-2002 05:57 AM
Yep, ruffian, those white horses are sure hard to pass up when they come along. I did get a second white horse later that was wonderful, but I kept her, too, mostly because she was so darn beautiful.
gbg, how was Sonara to race? I've always been intrigued by him. And I've been looking for good breeds with Wacky, who I think is a wonderful horse.
I do the same thing you do, girl racer. I used Dream sires to pump up my early original fillies, to improve breeding lines. They aren't as useful later on when their attribute bars may actually lower some of the bars in resulting foals. Early on, though, they're great at boosting numbers and building specific attributes.
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LadyLinda
Super Gamer
Posts: 318
From:Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Sep 2001        posted 07-12-2002 06:01 AM
Oh, and gbg, have you tried racing some of the game's black horses? They are among the prettiest. Polish Beat (Wonder Horse) passes along that color splendidly. So does Rare Night, a filly from the same shop.
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gbg001
Super Gamer
Posts: 28
From:shreveport, la
Registered: Jul 2002        posted 07-12-2002 09:31 AM
Linda I really did not like racing Sonara in his 2 yr old campaign but as an older horse he is very versatile and in my opinion better on dirt. He passes the dirt for to his offspring effectively. However, Wacky racer has that intangible desire to win and that's why i bred horses with those bloodlines together.
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LadyLinda
Super Gamer
Posts: 318
From:Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Sep 2001        posted 07-12-2002 10:22 AM
Thanks for the report, gbg. I appreciate it.
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RedBaron
Super Gamer
Posts: 34
From:Washington, DC USA
Registered: Apr 2002        posted 07-12-2002 01:09 PM
This is off the original topic, but I did not like Sonara. I think it was his slow spurt. I constantly had to whip the heck out of him and never won by much which resulted in low rider evals.
I do agree he is much better on dirt. His offspring leaned this way as well. For almost the same amount of money, I would buy Pure Ruin. He is better on turf and can run at longer distances more effectively.
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BeefyGuy
Super Gamer
Posts: 22
From:Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Registered: May 2002        posted 07-12-2002 03:58 PM
I have also used Sonara and quite liked him.
Yes, the spurt was a definite weak point and probably cost me a couple of times, but by adjusting my timing a little on the stretch I had a lot of success with this horse. And he did a nice breeding job for me too.
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willyam13
Super Gamer
Posts: 42
From:berkeley, ca us
Registered: Jun 2002        posted 07-12-2002 05:22 PM
i like sonar! yes he does have slow spurt but i would stared his drive at 3f pole and i would win very comfortably dirt or turf
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mcbwildcat
Super Gamer
Posts: 14
From:Euless, Tx, USA
Registered: Feb 2002        posted 07-12-2002 05:39 PM
I think that breeding can play a large roll in how you original horse runs on dirt. Having full bars doesn't hurt either. I had an original filly that peaked at 116t and 95d in her 5yr old season. As a three year old I won the New york derby with her, easliy by 3 lengths with an 85 dirt rating 144 rider eval. Made me wish I had tried to win the star of the usa with her. Her sire was Buster Chops and her great grand dad was Preying You. I was trying to get a horse that had equal Dirt and Turf ratings however the better horses always came out with higher turf ratings despite the dirt influence. Sammy Soon is also in her breeding way back down the line.
Online Racing League
CougarStables
http://www.advanceddigital.net/gallop_racer2001/home_FS.htm
ruffiansb
Super Gamer
Posts: 77
From:
Registered: Sep 2000        posted 07-07-2002 03:45 PM
I have to say that the INC rating most definitely matters on dirt. I just finished racing a filly ranked 109D that had A's in everything but incline, which was a C. To put it mildly, she sucked. This horse would choke in the last 16th in every single race, and it was such a struggle to get her to hold on to win. And this was on the dirt. I managed to win 8 GIs with her by reloading over and over, but I finally gave up. I know I have raced horses with ratings much lower than 109 who were able to achieve so much more; the only difference being a B or better in INC.
She also never reached the A rating, despite the several Gr. Is and the Star of USA title. I kept her because she was a white from non-white parents, but she also sucks at breeding and I can't seem to get a half-decent white out of her.
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Kalgon
Super Gamer
Posts: 40
From:
Registered: Feb 2002        posted 07-07-2002 06:31 PM
Thanks for the followup.
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Geauxfer
Super Gamer
Posts: 196
From:LaPlace,La USA
Registered: Jan 2002        posted 07-07-2002 06:51 PM
Ruffiansb,
I agree with you. We are starting to find that many of the dirt tracks have inclines that occur during the race before the stretch,so incline does play an important part.In the case of your horse I would like to know who the sire and dam were.I think that many of the horses have strenghts and abillities that do not show up as any number or bar,they remain intangible but exist none the less and seem to be the key for getting higher dirt ratings that stick.So If you can remember the parents names that would be a big help.Thanks and Good Luck!
------------------
Geauxfer
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LadyLinda
Super Gamer
Posts: 318
From:Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Sep 2001        posted 07-07-2002 07:08 PM
ruffian, I kept a white horse because he was white--and he was just this short of being a complete dud! It took me three breeds to get winning grittiness and bars (he had poor inc, also) back into the line. I did it, but had to give up the white coloring. Next time, I won't keep a white horse unless she/he rocks!
And I agree with Geauxfer about those intangibles. Some horses just "have it".
[This message has been edited by LadyLinda (edited 07-08-2002).]
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ruffiansb
Super Gamer
Posts: 77
From:
Registered: Sep 2000        posted 07-08-2002 05:35 AM
Geauxfer - The parents were Sammy Soon and Comin Strong. She must have inherited the bad incline from Sammy Soon, because if I recall correctly Comin Strong's isn't that bad.
LadyLinda - I probably should have passed on this horse anyway, since I already had two white colts waiting to be bred and besides, this one only had 6 starts and a 3yo peak. I guess I was just so happy to finally get a white filly as opposed to a colt so I thought I could do something with her. And I had already passed on another random white just because it was a colt even though it had excellent attributes. (I had run out of fillies at the time).
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gbg001
Super Gamer
Posts: 28
From:shreveport, la
Registered: Jul 2002        posted 07-11-2002 08:49 PM
all this talk of white horses--------just how do you get horse that's not the typical brown that I always get? (other than breeding greys)
I had a horse Rusty Dusty that sounds just like the horse you are talking about----that last .5 furlongs he spits the bit.
One cheaper horse that puts out excellent offspring is Sonara. I bred him to a filly out of Wacky Racer (turf sprinter) and came out with a super dirt horse that had S across the board despite the modest breeding.
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girl racer
Super Gamer
Posts: 440
From:CO
Registered: Jan 2002        posted 07-11-2002 09:17 PM
gbg,
Isn't that one of the nice surprises when you get a decent horse even though the breeding may be a bit suspect?
Now that the Dream Horses aren't so hard to get I am having fun breeding them to lower level fillies just to see what I get. At the very least it will give a boost to a new breeding line.
girl racer
IP: Logged
LadyLinda
Super Gamer
Posts: 318
From:Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Sep 2001        posted 07-12-2002 05:57 AM
Yep, ruffian, those white horses are sure hard to pass up when they come along. I did get a second white horse later that was wonderful, but I kept her, too, mostly because she was so darn beautiful.
gbg, how was Sonara to race? I've always been intrigued by him. And I've been looking for good breeds with Wacky, who I think is a wonderful horse.
I do the same thing you do, girl racer. I used Dream sires to pump up my early original fillies, to improve breeding lines. They aren't as useful later on when their attribute bars may actually lower some of the bars in resulting foals. Early on, though, they're great at boosting numbers and building specific attributes.
IP: Logged
LadyLinda
Super Gamer
Posts: 318
From:Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Sep 2001        posted 07-12-2002 06:01 AM
Oh, and gbg, have you tried racing some of the game's black horses? They are among the prettiest. Polish Beat (Wonder Horse) passes along that color splendidly. So does Rare Night, a filly from the same shop.
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gbg001
Super Gamer
Posts: 28
From:shreveport, la
Registered: Jul 2002        posted 07-12-2002 09:31 AM
Linda I really did not like racing Sonara in his 2 yr old campaign but as an older horse he is very versatile and in my opinion better on dirt. He passes the dirt for to his offspring effectively. However, Wacky racer has that intangible desire to win and that's why i bred horses with those bloodlines together.
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LadyLinda
Super Gamer
Posts: 318
From:Philadelphia, PA
Registered: Sep 2001        posted 07-12-2002 10:22 AM
Thanks for the report, gbg. I appreciate it.
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RedBaron
Super Gamer
Posts: 34
From:Washington, DC USA
Registered: Apr 2002        posted 07-12-2002 01:09 PM
This is off the original topic, but I did not like Sonara. I think it was his slow spurt. I constantly had to whip the heck out of him and never won by much which resulted in low rider evals.
I do agree he is much better on dirt. His offspring leaned this way as well. For almost the same amount of money, I would buy Pure Ruin. He is better on turf and can run at longer distances more effectively.
IP: Logged
BeefyGuy
Super Gamer
Posts: 22
From:Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Registered: May 2002        posted 07-12-2002 03:58 PM
I have also used Sonara and quite liked him.
Yes, the spurt was a definite weak point and probably cost me a couple of times, but by adjusting my timing a little on the stretch I had a lot of success with this horse. And he did a nice breeding job for me too.
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willyam13
Super Gamer
Posts: 42
From:berkeley, ca us
Registered: Jun 2002        posted 07-12-2002 05:22 PM
i like sonar! yes he does have slow spurt but i would stared his drive at 3f pole and i would win very comfortably dirt or turf
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mcbwildcat
Super Gamer
Posts: 14
From:Euless, Tx, USA
Registered: Feb 2002        posted 07-12-2002 05:39 PM
I think that breeding can play a large roll in how you original horse runs on dirt. Having full bars doesn't hurt either. I had an original filly that peaked at 116t and 95d in her 5yr old season. As a three year old I won the New york derby with her, easliy by 3 lengths with an 85 dirt rating 144 rider eval. Made me wish I had tried to win the star of the usa with her. Her sire was Buster Chops and her great grand dad was Preying You. I was trying to get a horse that had equal Dirt and Turf ratings however the better horses always came out with higher turf ratings despite the dirt influence. Sammy Soon is also in her breeding way back down the line.
Online Racing League
CougarStables
http://www.advanceddigital.net/gallop_racer2001/home_FS.htm
