To: Everyone
From: JimCougarOwners Club
 
Posted 21 Oct 08, 05:56
Message-id: 2075.16.0
I would really like to know how much stamina our sprinters, short runners, middle distance, long distance and epic runners should have. Has anyone come up with some pretty good numbers on these yet?

Distance....... Stamina Range
Sprints
800 - 1050.... Ordinary/Average - Levels 5/6
1100 - 1250...

Shorts
1300 - 1400...
1450 - 1500...

Middle
1600 - 1700...
1750 - 1800...

Long
1850 - 2000...
2050 - 2200...

Epic
2250 - 2600... Grand/Tremendous - Level 14/15
2650 - 2900...
2950 - 3200...

Edited by jimcougar at 23:06, 21st Oct
Reply to: 2075.16.0
Posted 21 Oct 08, 09:39
Message-id: 2075.16.1
Judging by dorothy i would say average stamina up to 1050, however i believe the faster the horse runs the more stamina would be needed so the higher the acceleration the more stamina needed so this really would be just an average rating.
Dorothy currently has marvelous accell.
Edited by mod-gopher27 at 09:42, 21st Oct
Reply to: 2075.16.0
Posted 21 Oct 08, 11:26
Message-id: 2075.16.2
The question as posed, doesn't really make any sense. More stamina is always better than less. Although some of it might be wasted if the distance isn't long enough or the speed isn't fast enough to make the most of it.

I've never heard anyone complain that their horse lost a race because of too much stamina. Although it obviously wouldn't make a lot of sense to try and put awe-inspiring stamina on a sprinter when you could be training more useful body stats.

I have noticed that stamina becomes a lot more important with a shorter stride. I know it might sound obvious, but I think it is something that a lot of people overlook.
Edited by hatless at 11:31, 21st Oct
From: JimCougarOwners Club
Reply to: 2075.16.2
Posted 21 Oct 08, 13:39
Message-id: 2075.16.3
Yes, I do think that there possibly could be too much stamina in some horses. Because as you mentioned as well, training can have both plusses and minuses for the horse statistics going for Awe-Inspiring in stamina for all horses would most likely be detrimental to a huge portion of them in regards to their other stats. So what I am asking about is what is what do we think would be the minimum stamina level that would be good for sprinters, shorts, middle, long and epic runners.
Edited by jimcougar at 13:40, 21st Oct
Reply to: 2075.16.1
Posted 21 Oct 08, 13:58
Message-id: 2075.16.4
Interesting Gopher. Both of my top sprinters are 1 level below that. Thanks for the heads up as I am going to work on that now.

Come to think of it though, both of my sprinters are about 3 levels below Dorothy in Accel so their stamina is probably okay for them at this point. I will be sure to raise the stamina as their Accel increases in levels though.
Edited by jimcougar at 14:01, 21st Oct
Reply to: 2075.16.4
Posted 21 Oct 08, 14:12
Message-id: 2075.16.5
Need to keep the muscle in good shape as well.
Reply to: 2075.16.5
Posted 21 Oct 08, 14:29
Message-id: 2075.16.6
LOL I'll be creating a thread on Muscle next. Creating a compilation thread on each of the horse stats is the first step. Then we can discuss our various experiments that we will create with combining those stats for the various racing distances.
Edited by jimcougar at 14:31, 21st Oct
From: JimCougarOwners Club
Reply to: 2075.16.6
Posted 23 Oct 08, 01:03
Message-id: 2075.16.7
So does anyone else have any information pertaining to optimum stamina levels for the various distances you are training your horses to compete in?
From: JimCougarOwners Club
Reply to: 2075.16.7
Posted 23 Nov 08, 01:02
Message-id: 2075.16.8
Does anyone have any more information regarding the level of stamina for horses at various distances? This would be very helpful for everyone to have.
Reply to: 2075.16.8
Posted 23 Nov 08, 09:26
Message-id: 2075.16.9
It's like getting blood out of a stone isn't it Jim.

Possibly the best way is to confidently state what the levels are and watch everyone jump in to shoot you down in flames.

I can't say optimal, but I can take a guess at minimums. However, it's rather dependent on Muscle Tone levels I'm sure.

Sprints - 2
Shorts - 4
Medium - 7
Long - 10
Epic - 10+
Reply to: 2075.16.9
Posted 23 Nov 08, 11:01
Message-id: 2075.16.10
I am becoming more and more interested in Muscle and Stamina building in my horses for all the distances.
Reply to: 2075.16.10
Posted 23 Nov 08, 17:57
Message-id: 2075.16.11
I think stamina required is directly linked to the horses speed, the higher the speed the more stamina needed for the distances in question
Reply to: 2075.16.11
Posted 24 Nov 08, 08:17
Message-id: 2075.16.12
I think they're all interlinked to a greater or lesser degree, certainly muscle tone, stamina and acceleration are all linked and are required in different quantities for different distances.

# Muscle tone - One of the most important characteristics, muscle tone helps determine the horses staying power in a race. A horse with poor muscle tone is likely to tire more quickly.
# Stamina - A horse with bad stamina may not be able to maintain its speed and abilities over the length of the race. Stamina becomes more important over longer race distances and on tracks with heavier conditions.

So a simplistic formula for a sprinter, (hypothesised examples), may be:

3:2:1.5 (acc:mt:stam)

but for a middle it might be:

2:3:2

and an epic:

2:5:6
Reply to: 2075.16.0
Posted 24 Nov 08, 11:50
Message-id: 2075.16.13
Before the jockey changes in mid October my sprinter held the 900m world record with a Stamina of 1, and an acceleration rating of 17. His muscle tone was in double figures though.

Reply to: 2075.16.13
Posted 26 Nov 08, 02:58
Message-id: 2075.16.14
Problem with this question is there isn't a hard and fast rule. As suggested above it is related to muscle (and hence speed). Obviously the jockey will impact on this, but I will assume we all want our horses to go as fast as possible.

The heavier the track, the more stamina required as well.

As Goph stated there is nothing wrong with extra stamina, sure it is a hassle to see the comment there was plenty of fuel left in the tank, but for mine that means my horse is fine to race at a level heavier track, or else needs more muscle and acceleration.

I used to keep track of what distances my horses collapsed at, but since a few tweaks to the AI it has become useless sorry.
Reply to: 2075.16.14
Posted 27 Nov 08, 04:32
Message-id: 2075.16.15
I agree that there is a lot of variables. Track condition, how much your jockey pushes the horse, what the horse's other stats are (particularly speed related), what its experience is and how much more effort this ekes out, and also stride.

Similar to my post in the race intructions thread, I think the best way is to race it ts x 4 and if it tires in the last 1/4, then you need more stamina, if it comes back freshish (not debilitated or exhausted) it prob needs more speed, or a better jockey fit, or a lower stride (opinion only!).

Personally my sprinters and short runners are my bread and butter.

My sprinter is at Ordinary(5) stamina with gate/accel at tremend/spectac.

My older short runner is at 7 stamina with 10/12 gate/acc and awe-insp exp. And my other short is Adequate( at stamina with admirable/majestic gate/acc. However the stamina in all cases is probably a level or 2 below where I would like it for a heavy or slow track.

for clarity
Edited by mattblack at 04:34, 27th Nov
Reply to: 2075.16.15
Posted 27 Nov 08, 23:21
Message-id: 2075.16.16
What about using more muscle tone than stamina? For a sprinter that is. If muscle tone is one of the most important stats in staying power wouldnt it then fit that in a sprinter its less the need for stamina but more the high muscle mass/tone to be able to maintain top speed for longer?

Not sure if real life correlates in anyway here, but in general, you will find your sprinters have a much heavier muscle tone to distance horses - eg quarter horses - huge muscle tone, blindingly fast over short distance.
Reply to: 2075.16.16
Posted 28 Nov 08, 02:10
Message-id: 2075.16.17
I think that's correct. Sprinter needs more muscle than stamina, can even get away with really low stamina if it has the muscle.
Reply to: 2075.16.17
Posted 28 Nov 08, 03:03
Message-id: 2075.16.18
i have no idea, im going to look at trying that though. it only really came to me as i was reading through these posts. Meepers there is alot of stuff in here!
To: Everyone
Reply to: 2075.16.18
Posted 28 Nov 08, 05:29
Message-id: 2075.16.19
Intersting!
So do you think that muscle tone takes the place of stamina for sprinters?
My runners usualy have pretty high muscle from sprints anyway.
Maybe I'm just falling into good sprints/short because of this.
Is stamina not as important as I thought?
Reply to: 2075.16.19
Posted 28 Nov 08, 05:46
Message-id: 2075.16.20
haha, i have no idea... like i said, it only came to me as i was reading through the posts in here. But going by what the help section says, and a bit of real world knowledge... it makes sense that the muscle tone would be more important than stamina in sprinters... im going to try it on my sprinter and see what it does. but you would obvioussly still need a reasonable stamina otherwise you would just burn out. So i wouldnt say it takes the place of stamina, but i would definitely (unproven) think it is the more important stat of the two.

Using that logic though... high acceleration would also need high muscle tone to support it - high acceleration would require lots of muscle built up to respond quickly.

Depends on just how much like real life those stats are though.
Reply to: 2075.16.20
Posted 28 Nov 08, 07:47
Message-id: 2075.16.21
you have a good thought there as quarter horses are very fast for short dist: so there is got to be some meart to the heavy muscle.
Edited by pony at 07:50, 28th Nov
Reply to: 2075.16.21
Posted 28 Nov 08, 09:49
Message-id: 2075.16.22
Interesting discussion, but I think everyone is potentially overlooking the value of heart. Not sure why, just a feeling.
Reply to: 2075.16.22
Posted 28 Nov 08, 09:52
Message-id: 2075.16.23
heart is the drive to keep fighting for the winning drive or that is how i see it so a horse with good heart in a finnal drive should not quit
To: PonyOwners Club
Reply to: 2075.16.23
Posted 28 Nov 08, 13:01
Message-id: 2075.16.24
Once i've finished listing my horses and training you will be able to work out that muscle is important but stamina is a player after 1000m and experience is even more important, should be completed in about 5 days if everything runs smoothly at home.

Reply to: 2075.16.24
Posted 28 Nov 08, 16:48
Message-id: 2075.16.25
I have just seen a couple of races where horses with better xp are getting beaten by horses with worse xp because of the jockey situation
Why stress about the horses xp if any player can throw in a low xp horse with a higher xp'd jockey and win anyway
Bang head
Reply to: 2075.16.25
Posted 28 Nov 08, 19:51
Message-id: 2075.16.26
jockeys aren't the only thing you should consider. first of you don't know the stats of the horse who got beaten. jockeys xp isn't the deciding factor but its stats.

two weeks ago i had a awe aspiring sprints xp jockey riding a horse who clearly had better acceleration but was beaten silly by a horse who had less acceleration and never ran over 54 kmh an hour. his horse had better sprint xp (5 points higher) than my horse and his jockey didn't even have high sprints experience. the said horse broke the 1250m world record during that race.

lots of factors to look into.
Reply to: 2075.16.26
Posted 28 Nov 08, 20:12
Message-id: 2075.16.27
I had my bot basher in a long race on friday with a new jockey. He got wiped away by a two yr old who probably had worse stamina than him, and certainly had worse XP. i blame the jockey, pretty certain he had a nap during the middle of the race, which does not bode well for my classic final Sad